Difference between revisions of "Language Notes"

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[[Category:Gaera Main]]
 
[[Category:Gaera Main]]
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== IC language display v the actual IC language ==
  
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'''Besyanteo (9/14/05 16:55)'''
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The language [[:Category:Gaera Main|Gaerans]] speak isn't English...or, for that matter, Cantonese, French, German, Hebrew, Japanese, Russian, Spanish, or anything else of the sort. Even though [[Hakaril Silvar]] is apparently speaking English while turning the national treasury into fish, an Englishwoman from Earth would not understand what he is speaking because he is speaking ''Common.'' We write it in English because that's the language we know how to write.
  
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OK. So, I was thinking about some of the things in our Cannon recently. Specifically, various names for things and people(s). Like, Nekogami and the Nekojin. These kinda make sense, as their whole schtick has kind of old Japan basing.
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The same goes for, say, [[Inustan]]i, which is represented by Spanish. A Spaniard from Earth such as [[Cardinal]] would not understand Inustani until he learned it as a separate language.
  
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... So what's everyone else's excuse? o_o
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== Table 1 ==
  
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Over half the gods, most of the furries. many posted demon races, and even some aquatic races are all named basedo n the Japanese language. And I can totally see why they originally were (convenience, since it doesn't sound like English made all silly).
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This table shows [1] the name of the IC language, [2] how that language is displayed, and [3] the language "expert(s)," or a person or persons with some knowledge about how to display the language. For instance, glu_glu is a native Spanish speaker, Daien and Malta Jean natively speak Maltese, [[User:pdrydia|pdrydia]] has studied an amount of Spanish as [[User:Taiar|Taiar]] has Cantonese and [[User:Kerov|Squintz]] Hebrew--and so on.
  
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But why are they STILL that way? Garou have aparently dropped the "jin" when talking abuot themselves ICly, so their name is now more french (the loup-garou, although it is aparently also used in Katakana or whatever? The 'foriegn' Japanese I've heard it called?), but otherwise it all seems... very fanboyish. *shrug*
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{| class="wikitable"
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| align=right | '''RP language''' || '''displayed as''' || '''expert(s)'''
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|-valign=top
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| align=right | '''Common''' || English || virtually anyone
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|-valign=top
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| align=right | '''[[Barius|Barian]]''' || ''fictional'';<br>Italian/Russian hybrid || [[User:Shinigori|Shinigori]]
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|-valign=top
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| align=right | '''[[Demon]]ic''' || Maltese || Daien, MaltaJean
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|-valign=top
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| align=right | '''[[Dragon]]ic'''<br>(Draconic) || fictional || --
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|-valign=top
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| align=right | '''[[dwarf|Dwarvish]]''' || Russian || --
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|-valign=top
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| align=right | '''[[Griffon]]ic''' || ''fictional'' || [[User:Nekogami|Nekogami]]
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|-valign=top
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| align=right | '''[[Goblin]]''' || German || --
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|-valign=top
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| align=right | '''[[elf|High Elvin]]'''+ || Hebrew || [[User:Kerov|SquintzAltec]]
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|-valign=top
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| align=right | '''[[nekonia|High Nekonian]]'''+ || Japanese || Nekogami
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|-valign=top
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| align=right | '''[[Inustan]]i''' || Spanish || glu_glu, [[User:pdrydia|pdrydia]]
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|-valign=top
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| align=right | '''[[Terumahilana|Lanese]]'''<br>([[Long]]) || Cantonese || [[User:Taiar|Taiar]], Nekogami
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|-valign=top
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| align=right | '''[[Mazoku]]'''++ || Cantonese || Taiar, Nekogami
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|-valign=top
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| align=right | '''[[Ryuuzoku]]'''++ || ''fictional'' || LadydragonclawsEDW
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|-valign=top
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| align=right | '''Sidhe''' || ''fictional'';<br>combination of Welsh, Gaelic,<br>other British Isle languages || [[User:Brother Pervius|UnclePervy]]
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|-valign=top
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| align=right | '''[[the Woodlands|Sagii]]'''<br>(the Woodlands) || French || --
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|-valign=top
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| align=right | '''[[Valth]]i''' || fictional || [[User:Namagomi|Namagomi]]
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|}
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Notes on the above table:
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* +Barian, High Elvin, and High Nekonian are used only by certain social classes in their respective countries
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* ++Ryuuzoku and mazoku are offworlder languages. While there are now mazoku native to Gaera, these people have their own native languages, usually that of the culture they were raised in or around.
  
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Anyway, I just thought it would be neat if some of the race experts that are still active atleast gave this some thought. Or better yet, comment! If you don't agree that some (if not alot) of these should be changed, tell me so!
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== Table 2 ==
  
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'''Kai (9/14/05 17:08)
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Some languages ''are'', if not quite identical, close enough in vocabulary and structure so that if a character can understand one language, that character can understand the other. This has developed largely for the sake of deus ex machina and has been, so far, kept within the IC languages.
  
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Well, unfortunately it seems the first person to post is not going to be an expert. But I'm mouthy, so here goes.
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{| class="wikitable"
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| align=right | '''RP language''' || '''identical to'''
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|-valign=top
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| align=right | Common ([[Ayenee]]) || Common ([[:Category:Gaera Main|Gaera]]), Common ([[Neo Vane|Lunar]])
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|-valign=top
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| align=right | Common (Gaera) || Common (Ayenee), Common (Lunar)
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|-valign=top
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| align=right | Common (Lunar) || Common (Ayenee), Common (Gaera)
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|-valign=top
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| align=right | [[Terumahilana|Lanese]] || [[Mazoku]]
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|-valign=top
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| align=right | Mazoku || Lanese
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|}
  
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I'm rather fond of the nomenclature used on the site/in Gaeran canon. Using the Japanese terms does two things:
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== Alphabets ==
  
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It avoids naming everything without context or reasoning behind the name. Often in fantasy settings it's common to give characters batshit insane names. This is okay for characters from my view, but not for things which ought to be relatively standardized, which brings me to my second point.
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[[Image:Alphabet_common.jpg|thumb]]
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=== Common ===
  
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The Japanese system of naming (at least as it is adapted to be used here) can be a little more regular than, say... English. It's easier to make the things which have to do with cat people (to use your example) more standardized and more closely connected to one another. A Nekojin worshipper of Nekogami who lives in Nekonia. Cat theme ahoy.
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Archmage has made this into a downloadable true type font which can, currently, be downloaded [http://blue.butler.edu/~bford/gaeran_common.ttf here].
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<br clear="all" />
  
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I realize not all of the word bases/naming systems for deities/locations/whatever are based on the Japanese language. But I don't see any reason for it to be changed. As it stands, the terms are easy to remember (at least they'd be much more difficult with another system), and it's easy to improvise.
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[[Image:Alphabet_griffonic.gif|thumb]]
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=== Griffonic ===
  
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It's much more simplified than a naturally-developed nomenclature probably would be, but I like to think of that as an advantage rather than a drawback. Because it was organized over a much shorter period of time than, say, hundreds of years, allowances could be made early on. The naming system may change later on. Who can say? But it should change because it no longer fits the things it's naming, not because the system has too strong a theme or an obvious derivation.
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Notes on the [[Griffon]]ic language from [[User:Nekogami|Nekogami]]:
  
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So... while I admittedly have not been using the system as long as most other people on the board since I haven't been exposed to it as long, I'm casting my vote of confidence that it's fine the way it is.
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Griffons technically have two languages. When in griffon form, they talk much like bird, with warks, coo, warbles, and so on. However, in [[elf|elven]] form they have another language that can be spoken by other non-griffons. It is this latter form that is generally what is being referred to with the word "Griffonic."
  
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'''Archmage144 (9/14/05 17:12)'''
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There are 16 letters in the griffonic alphabet: A U I O E W R Y S F G H J K L M
  
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I think it's just convention--we're not the only community that does it when referring to an anime-esque RP setting, though no other examples come to mind. It also has to do with the fact that nekojin and inujin, at the very least, were pioneered and named by Amanda. Ditto for many of the original deities (Nekogami, Inugami, and Ryuugami come to mind--and it should be noted that the proper name for Inugami is Fideleo).Since "Japanese" doesn't exist in Gaera, whether or not they're named in "Japanese" is largely irrelevant, and these names might just be common words. The inujin might call themselves something different in their own language, for example, but I can't think of anything in 'Spanish" that conveys the idea of "anthropomorphic dogs."
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'R's are often trilled or rolled. G is never soft like a J. Vowel sounds are as thus:
  
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They are "still" that way because changing them would likely create confusion and would overall be pretty pointless.
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A = 'ah' as in father
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U = 'oo' as in food
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I = 'ee' as in feed
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E = 'ey' as in pain
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O = 'oh' as in bone<br>AA = 'ah-ae'
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UU = 'oo-oo'
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EE = 'ee'<br>I is never doubled.
  
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The simplest explanation is that the words (which sound "Japanese" to us) are some form of Gaeran Common, and Japanese was used as the base real-world language for the nomenclature of anthro races and deities just because it was convenient and sounded good as opposed to anything else anyone could come up with in English. Gods can have alternate names (one example has already been given, others do as well--I know I never use the name Jiyuugami for Kazeros or whatever the JPN-esque name is). Races can have alternate names as well, but I think it's best to stick to the "Japanese" nomenclature since it's already in place. Arguing the point is really beating a dead horse, especially since it's more or less semantics ("Japanese doesn't exist in Gaera!" Neither does English, but there's no point in learning an entirely fictional language to RP).
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Sentence structure in the Griffonic language follows the SOV (Subject-Object-Verb) format.
  
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If it makes us look like "fanboys" or whatever, it's something that's never bothered me. Appropriating words from other languages that sound cool is pretty damn common, linguistically speaking, and Americans are in no way the only ones that do it. The Japanese appropriate English (where do you think Engrish comes from?) and slap it all over products and in song lyrics because it sounds exotic, modern, and interesting, even if they don't know what's being said. So do many other cultures. A lot of Latin music that is otherwise being sung in English randomly lapses into Spanish for the sake of fitting a rhyming scheme.
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Peeah a sufae.
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pig to attack - Attack the pig.<br>(literally: Direct your attack to/at the pig.)<br><br>Wea luu is soe ka err.
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red ribbon of girl is - The girl's ribbon is red.<br>(literally: The red ribbon of the girl is red.)
  
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Just my perspective on the subject.
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Some other rules:
  
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Edit: Kai posted while I was composing mine. Yar!
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When directing an action to something 'a' comes before the verb.
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When stating a fact 'ka' comes before the verb.
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'''Capntastic (9/14/05 22:57)'''
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When stating an uncertainty 'on' comes before the verb.
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When asking a question, 'sofa' is added at the end.  
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Most of my characters say things like "Lizardfolk" or "Bearfolk."
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<br clear="all" />
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Except Ned, who says "Nekojin" for obvious reasons ;D
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'''Idran1701 (9/15/05 7:03)'''
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I've brought this up before myself, since I found it odd. I think I ended up just deciding in game that all the racial/god/whatever names were drawn from Nekonian for some reason, but Brian's explanation makes more sense. The occasionally-mentioned "translation filter" that's sometimes considered to be built into the fourth wallas it were, that also results in people that make rhyming works rhyme in English, or that make puns that make sense in English, or so on.
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"Never let your morals get in the way of doing what is right" - Salvor Hardin
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'''PriamNevhausten (9/15/05 9:13)'''
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I know I avoid the use of "-jin" wherever it is even moderately possible. Instead of "Nekojin" and "Inujin" to refer to species, I will *always* use "Nekonian" and "Inustani" because, well. The characters literally speak english because we do, even if this english is only something of a translation from their assumedly-not-english language, so it only makes sense to use English-language area-of-origin classifiers.
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In a historical sense, you may recall that I wrote the Inustani civilization guide with the notion that they call their own people "gente." As far as I see it, the first people they encountered were likely the Nekonians, who then gave them the moniker "Inujin" as a way to differentiate Inustani from their own citizens. So, I suppose it is acceptable and recognizable to call them so, but, being a Nekonian-given name, most Inustani would likely be loath to call themselves that.
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It all works out in the end if you just blame the Nekonians for everything =D
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Latest revision as of 23:09, 5 April 2007

IC language display v the actual IC language

The language Gaerans speak isn't English...or, for that matter, Cantonese, French, German, Hebrew, Japanese, Russian, Spanish, or anything else of the sort. Even though Hakaril Silvar is apparently speaking English while turning the national treasury into fish, an Englishwoman from Earth would not understand what he is speaking because he is speaking Common. We write it in English because that's the language we know how to write.

The same goes for, say, Inustani, which is represented by Spanish. A Spaniard from Earth such as Cardinal would not understand Inustani until he learned it as a separate language.

Table 1

This table shows [1] the name of the IC language, [2] how that language is displayed, and [3] the language "expert(s)," or a person or persons with some knowledge about how to display the language. For instance, glu_glu is a native Spanish speaker, Daien and Malta Jean natively speak Maltese, pdrydia has studied an amount of Spanish as Taiar has Cantonese and Squintz Hebrew--and so on.

RP language displayed as expert(s)
Common English virtually anyone
Barian fictional;
Italian/Russian hybrid 		Shinigori
Demonic Maltese Daien, MaltaJean
Dragonic
(Draconic) 		fictional --
Dwarvish Russian --
Griffonic fictional Nekogami
Goblin German --
High Elvin+ Hebrew SquintzAltec
High Nekonian+ Japanese Nekogami
Inustani Spanish glu_glu, pdrydia
Lanese
(Long) 		Cantonese Taiar, Nekogami
Mazoku++ Cantonese Taiar, Nekogami
Ryuuzoku++ fictional LadydragonclawsEDW
Sidhe fictional;
combination of Welsh, Gaelic,
other British Isle languages 		UnclePervy
Sagii
(the Woodlands) 		French --
Valthi fictional Namagomi

Notes on the above table:

  • +Barian, High Elvin, and High Nekonian are used only by certain social classes in their respective countries
  • ++Ryuuzoku and mazoku are offworlder languages. While there are now mazoku native to Gaera, these people have their own native languages, usually that of the culture they were raised in or around.

Table 2

Some languages are, if not quite identical, close enough in vocabulary and structure so that if a character can understand one language, that character can understand the other. This has developed largely for the sake of deus ex machina and has been, so far, kept within the IC languages.

RP language identical to
Common (Ayenee) Common (Gaera), Common (Lunar)
Common (Gaera) Common (Ayenee), Common (Lunar)
Common (Lunar) Common (Ayenee), Common (Gaera)
Lanese Mazoku
Mazoku Lanese

Alphabets

Alphabet common.jpg

Common

Archmage has made this into a downloadable true type font which can, currently, be downloaded here.

Alphabet griffonic.gif

Griffonic

Notes on the Griffonic language from Nekogami:

Griffons technically have two languages. When in griffon form, they talk much like bird, with warks, coo, warbles, and so on. However, in elven form they have another language that can be spoken by other non-griffons. It is this latter form that is generally what is being referred to with the word "Griffonic."

There are 16 letters in the griffonic alphabet: A U I O E W R Y S F G H J K L M

'R's are often trilled or rolled. G is never soft like a J. Vowel sounds are as thus: 

A = 'ah' as in father
U = 'oo' as in food
I = 'ee' as in feed
E = 'ey' as in pain
O = 'oh' as in bone
AA = 'ah-ae'
UU = 'oo-oo'
EE = 'ee'
I is never doubled.

Sentence structure in the Griffonic language follows the SOV (Subject-Object-Verb) format. 

Peeah a sufae.
pig to attack - Attack the pig.
(literally: Direct your attack to/at the pig.)

Wea luu is soe ka err.
red ribbon of girl is - The girl's ribbon is red.
(literally: The red ribbon of the girl is red.)

Some other rules: 

When directing an action to something 'a' comes before the verb.
When stating a fact 'ka' comes before the verb.
When stating an uncertainty 'on' comes before the verb.
When asking a question, 'sofa' is added at the end.


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